LTF 22: Patience in One’s Speech; Joyful Perseverance (Verses 18 – 20)

Actually, we are up to the last verse about patience, which is Verse 18. This verse, according to Mipam’s outline, is dealing with avoiding one of the main conditions for anger to arise, which is using improper words or harsh language. 

Verse 18:

[18] The Triumphant (Buddha) has proclaimed people’s words to be of three types: like honey, (like) flowers, or (like) excrement – (namely,) those that fall (easily) on the heart, those that are truthful, or those that convey what’s false. Out of these, rid yourself of the last.

This refers to three types of speech. The first type of speech is sweet like honey. According to the commentaries, sSpeech that’s sweet like honey is something that literally falls easily on the heart. In other words, it’s pleasant language that makes people happy when they hear it. This is the kind of speech that, when other people speak to us like that, we have no problem being patient. When we speak like that to others, others have no problem being patient with us from their side. The second type is speech that is like flowers. “Like flowers” refers to beautiful speech. Beautiful speech is, according to Nagarjuna, speech that is truthful, that speaks the truth – that which is very proper –and presents things as they are. 

Participant: Can’t that be harsh sometimes?

Dr. Berzin: Well, actually that was coming to mind – that sometimes the truth can be a little bit difficult. We had this discussion when we were looking at the verse in which Nagarjuna went through the ten destructive actions. We talked about how, if somebody is wearing a dress or a shirt that is very ugly, saying to them, “Wow, that really is an ugly dress that you are wearing,” although perhaps truthful, is not the most diplomatic thing to say. One wouldn’t say that it’s beautiful speech like a flower, would one? If somebody asks us our opinion, that’s one thing. WAnd we can be diplomatic and say, “I don’t want to hurt your feelings or anything, but that dress doesn’t look particularly nice on you.” There are nice ways of saying it rather than, “Oh, my god! It’s so ugly.” However, if nobody asks our opinion, there is no reason to give it in that type of situation. 

Participant: We also had this once – that not giving all of the information is not lying.

Dr. Berzin: Yes. There is no reason to give unnecessary information. The Tibetans are very, very good at that. We went through the story about how, if you give too much information, it can cause obstacles, like when the Tibetans went to India to invite Atisha to Tibet. I think it was Avalokiteshvara who was overseeing their mission and kept appearing in various forms. The Tibetans kept telling him, “Oh, we have come here to invite and bring Atisha back to Tibet.” Then the emanation of Avalokiteshvara would scold them very badly and say, “Keep your mouth shut, and stop talking so much because if the abbot of the monastery finds out why you are here, for sure, he won’t let Atisha go to Tibet.” So, when we are planning something, especially if we are planning something that is very positive, it’s very good not to publicize it too much. The more you publicize it, the more the obstacles usually come up. 

We can think in terms of obstacles from harmful spirits. Of course, that’s one level. But we can also think just on an ordinary level – for instance,: if you tell somebody, “Oh, I am planning to study this, I am planning to do that, I am planning to make this trip,” and so on, people might start to discourage you. They might also start to make fun of you. They also might be jealous and try to stop you. There’s a difference between asking somebody we trust for advice about a plan and putting the plan up on the homepage of our website. Also, sometimes, we promise to do, or it sounds as though we are promising to do, something, and then, in the end, we don’t do it. A and that’s makes us look like a fool. That, also, is something one has to be careful about. 

Of course, there are many things in the text that say, for example, that if hunters are coming to shoot a deer, for example, and you saw the deer, there is no reason to tell them where the deer went. YouO can do that by directly lying, or you can try to be a little bit evasive – depends on how strongly you want to keep to the ethics. But, as with the example of Buddha in a previous lifetime when he had to kill this oarsman on the boat in order to save the five hundred merchants, Buddha did that while being willing to take on the negative consequences of it.  He said something like, “Even if I have to go to the deepest hell,, it is better for me to do this than for all these people to lose their lives and for the murderer to have an even worse consequence.” So, if we are in a situation in which there is no way out of it and in which to benefit others we need to lie, we need to be willing to accept the consequences of it. Best is not to lie, though One can just be vague, a. One doesn’t have to say everything.; I think that’s the point.

If we can be truthful, like… if we think about the qualities of a good friend. WWhat are the qualitiesare of a good friend? There are many definitions of a good friend. A good friend is somebody that leads you in the direction of doing positive things. So, a good friend would be somebody who, if you are doing something wrong or something harmful, would actually tell you that and be truthful with you about it in the hope of helping you to improve and to avoid problems. When you have a friend who is truthful with you like that, that is something that is very beautiful – “like the flower,” Nagarjuna says. 

Now, of course, I am reminded of the verse in Shantideva’s, Bodhicharyavatara (Engaging in Bodhisattva Behavior), where he talks about childish people –:  that even if you tell them the truth, they get angry with you and won’t listen to you. That’s certainly true if you are dealing with childish people. But here we are talking about really being sincere, I think. That also is important. I think sincerity also falls into the category of being truthful – sincere in what we mean, sincere with our feelings, sincere with our praise or criticism and these types of things. So, sincere words are words that are like flowers: they are truthful and beautiful. 

These are the types of things that are not going to cause anger. You could say that  saying something whichthat is truthful but thatit hurts somebody else’s feelings is not a cause for anger. [unclear: what? ☺] Though they may get angry at you… – I don’t know. There are many ways of understanding all of this. But if somebody says something to you that is truthful and is a criticism of you – that likewise requires patience, doesn’t it? It requires patience to accept the criticism and to learn from it. So,But instead of getting angry at the person who says the truth, even if it hurts, one can see that that is a great opportunity to be patient,to not to get angry, and to learn. 

It’s the same thing with somebody who speaks sweetly, like honey that falls easily on the heart. Sometimes, these sorts of people can annoy you as well, actually. Somebody who is just so sweet and always talking, “blah, blah, blah,” talking about absolutely nothing – talking on and on with sweet words – that also can get on your nerves. That, too, can require patience. But here, Nagarjuna is speaking about our own speech and avoiding things that will cause anger and quarrels to arise. 

The one that he points out specifically are words that are like excrement, which are; words that convey what’s false. The word “false” is an interesting word: here. iIn the Tibetan translation, they use the word for “distorted” – so, distorted speech. But aAccording to the commentaries,however, it certainly doesn’t mean distorted speech being:“ in the sense of saying what is antagonistic, denying what is true, or asserting what is not true, although, i”In a sense, one of the commentaries takes it like that. B, but the Sanskrit word…

Participant: What’s the difference between false and distorted? 

Dr. Berzin: The word “distorted” is used, for instance, as in the term “distorted, antagonistic attitude,” which means not only incorrect but also antagonistic. Antagonistic means that you stubbornly hold onto your idea, which is wrong, and really argue against the other person. 

But the Sanskrit word that this is translating – although the Sanskrit original isn’t there, you can reconstruct what the Sanskrit word for that is – has more the connotation of speaking what is false, which is a synonym for lying. 

One of the commentaries takes this verse [this verse?] to refer to all the destructive ways of speaking. The commentary [not Mipam’s?]that puts it into the category of helping us to develop patience describes it as avoiding harsh language because speaking harshly, yelling at people and so on obviously means that we don’t have patience, that we get angry. So, what we want to do in order to develop patience is to avoid yelling and screaming and swearing at people. That fits into the commentary in terms of patience. But I think that one couldalso look at this in much broader way because, as I said, there are so many different commentaries to this that explain it in different manners, and not all of them relate this to patience. 

If we are in a situation, for instance, in which we are asked something and we lie, we would be speaking falsely or incorrectly. That also means that we don’t have patience for the situation itself; therefore, we have to get around it and be devious. That also can lead to arguments. When we do lie, usually, we’re impatiencet with what the truth is. Remember, the word for patience also means to “tolerate something, to be able to bear it on our backs.” When we lie, we don’t have patience for what the actual situation or the truth of it is, and so we deny it. I In that sense, we are not patient with a difficult situation. There are many different ways of understanding this verse. 

Nagarjuna says, “Out of these, rid yourself of the last.” In other words, when we are with others, it’s important, no matter how horribly they might be acting, to watch our speech and be patient,; to speak pleasantly, sweetly, to speak what is truthful, and to avoid yelling at people and using harsh language. If we have that, then we can be patient in whatever situation comes up. OK? I’ll read the verse again:

[18] The Triumphant (Buddha) has proclaimed people’s words to be of three types: like honey, (like) flowers, or (like) excrement – (namely,) those that fall (easily) on the heart, those that are truthful, or those that convey what’s false. Out of these, rid yourself of the last.

Any questions? Why don’t we take a moment to just reflect how patient we are with our speech. I find that one indication of not being patient is a habit that many of us have, myself included, which is that when somebody says something, automatically the word “no” comes out of our mouths. Do you ever notice that in yourself? Or “but.” In a sense, we are very, very quick to criticize, very quick not to accept what the other person says or suggests. 

 [Inaudible]. I’m just joking.

So, let’s reflect a little bit on our habits of speech and how patient we are. When somebody says something, are we quick to criticize them? Are we quick to correct them? Do we very quickly, without even thinking about it, disagree? Some people disagree just out of fun.

Participant: Just to be troublesome.

Dr. Berzin: Just to be troublesome. 

So let’s reflect for a moment on our own patterns of speech. It’s interesting, because I notice in my own pattern of speech thatoften  I will start my reply to somebody with the word “no.” It doesn’t mean anything; it just comes out. I don’t know if you do that in German, but, certainly, it’s very easy to do that in English. 

Participant: “No.”

Dr. Berzin: “No”! So, it happens in German as well. What’s behind that? That’s the point. 

Participant: Harsh speech.

Dr. Berzin: Yes. It’s a subtle form of not being tolerant. 

The next two verses begin the discussion of joyful perseverance, the next of the far-reaching attitudes. Verse 19 refers to the type of person we should to strive to become or to be like, and. So, we need perseverance to become like this;we need, to make effort to become like this. 

[19] There are four (types of) persons: those who from light, end up in light; those who from darkness, end up in darkness; those who from light, end up in darkness; and those who from darkness, end up in light. Be like the first of these.

ople.Those who “From light” refers to better rebirths, and “darkness” refersring to worse rebirths. There are four types of personsT: (1) are indicated by the line,“those who from light, end up in light.” refers to those who go from a better rebirth to a better rebirth; (2) “tThose who from darkness end up in darkness” refers to those who go from one of the worst rebirths to another one of the worst rebirths; (3). “tThose who from light, end up in darkness” is describingrefers to those who go from a better rebirth to a worse rebirth.Then,; (4) “tThose who from darkness, end up in light,” is indicatingrefers to those, who, go from a worse rebirth, to a better rebirth. It says, “Be like the first of these.” In other words, what we need to strive for, to work for, is always to have one of the three better rebirths and, specifically, to always have a precious human rebirth. 

Believing in Rebirth

This, of course, brings in the whole question of belief in rebirth. If we don’t believe in rebirth or have confidence in that, it doesn’t make terribly much sense to strive to continue to have precious human rebirths. But, as I have said many times, in Buddhism, the difference between what I call “Dharma-lite” and “TReal-thing Dharma,” I think, revolves around this whole issue of rebirth, which is very, very central to all the Buddhist teachings. 

We have precious human rebirths now, supposedly. If we do, then we want to take advantage of them. But, also, we want to be able to continue having precious human rebirths. As suchSo, there is a great deal of emphasis on the causes for a precious human rebirth and the methods for fulfilling those causes. Why? Because in this lifetime, as it says in anuttarayoga tantra, the highest class of tantra, that it is possible to achieve enlightenment – although to attain it in this lifetime is very, very rare and most unlikely. We need to think in terms of a long-term effort. That’s why this is in the category here of joyful perseverance. We need to make a long-term effort because from day to day, month to month, it’s going to go up and down. We have to think of trying to make progress in a long-term sense, and the only way that we can make progress is to continue having precious human lives.

The main cause for a precious human life is ethical discipline. This is one of the big characteristics of a human being – that we have the discrimination, the discriminating awareness to be able to discriminate between what’s helpful and what’s harmful and, so, to refrain from what’s harmful.

Participant: The gods don’t have it in the way humans have it?

Dr. Berzin: Not in the way that humans have it. They’re too lost either in pleasure or in very deep meditations. 

Participant: Meditations, also?

Dr. Berzin: Yes. Well, in the form and formless realms, they’re sunk into deep –  trance like states. They also have a certain type of – discerning. I forget how I translate it–. There are certain states in which you look down on the lower state of concentration as something that’s not desirable, and you look up to the higher state of concentration as something that you want to get to. But eventually, you lose that ability as well. I forget which dhyana you lose that on, but… I think that it’s after the first one that you don’t have that anymore. B, but don’t quote me on that. 

In any case, the point is: what the special characteristic of a human being is. It is always pointed out that we can discriminate between –, as we would say in colloquial language –: what’s right and what’s wrong. This means being able to discern what’s helpful and what’s harmful,; what’s to be done and what’s not to be done. It’s very difficult for an animal to do that. Also, as humans, we can restrain ourselves. Gods don’t restrain themselves from pleasures; it’s too easy for them to give infall into pleasure. So, ethical discipline is very important. 

If you remember, Shantideva divided – his discussion of ethical discipline, into two chapters. The first one was “The Caring Attitude.” We have to care about what happens to us. We have to care about the fact that we are going to experience consequences from our behavior. If we don’t care, if everything is equal to us – es ist egal – then why refrain from acting negatively? “We can have fun today and. Who cares about the hangover that we’ll have in the morning from getting drunk tonight?” With this type of attitude, basically one basically doesn’t care. “Who cares that we have to get up early in the morning and go to work or go to school? I’ll stay up and party until four or five o’clock in the morning.” So, the caring attitude is very important. Also,, mindfulness – holding onto the discipline and being alert, watchforing out in case our hold on the discipline becomes loose. 

If we really care about ourselves and what we experience, then we will care about our future lives. As I say, it’s not so easy for those of us who haven’t grown up with the idea of future lives as part of our cultural background to have confidence in them – to believe that there is such a thing as rebirth. And it’s not that we’ll get this thing of “I see the light,” and “Halleluiah! Now I believe!” I don’t think that happens. Or if it happens, it happens very rarely. 

What’s helpful with the whole idea of rebirth is something that, in the beginning, is, ,“to give it the benefit of the doubt, as we say in English..” In other words, this is to “OK, I will assume that it’s correct, but I won’t make a final decision yet. I’ll, b assume that it’s correct and then see what follows in terms of Dharma training, in terms of the attitudes that develop from that.” Then, very, very slowly over many, many, many years, confidence in it will grow. It took me a very long time to really be convinced of rebirth. And I must say, it was my very good fortune to know my teacher in two lifetimesin order . That convinced that it really is  so, because it was very clear with him. 

Also, it is very important to realize that to have confidence in rebirth requires understanding the Buddhist teachings on rebirth and, specifically, the teachings on no solid self. If you think in terms of a false idea of “me,” then– that’s not at all what rebirth is about. Without the understanding of the voidness of the self, you can’t really understand rebirth at all, a. And thatunderstanding that the voidness of self is not so easy to understand. Remember, we had the discussion of “neither one nor many.” It’s not that I am a solidly existent “me” and that, in the next rebirth, that solidly existent “me” is identical to me. It’s not identical. It is not the same ping-pong ball, to use the analogy that we used in Shantideva’s class. They’re not completely different ping-pong balls, either. It’s neither of those. 

Participant: [In German]

Dr. Berzin: Does Serkong Rinpoche remember things from his previous life? Yes.

Participant: Der Dalai Lama sagt er kann sich nicht erinnern. Rinpoche sagt auch er kann sich nicht erinnern.

Dr. Berzin: Some do and some don’t. When His Holiness says he doesn’t remember… 

Participant: Erinnern konnte.

Dr. Berzin: What was that? He said that he could remember when he was younger. But as he got older, the memories faded. 

When I was in America last year with Serkong Rinpoche, we watched a video of the old Serkong Rinpoche teaching, and he said to me, “Oh, I remember that. I remember saying that.” There is no reason why he would lie to me. 

I’m just saying that, for me, actually knowing somebody in two lifetimes and seeing the similarities, then and seeing the types of relationships that he has, especially with me (which came from his side starting when he was four years old)…T, convinced me very much. So, what I’m saying is that for me, conviction in rebirth came after a very long time of being involved in Buddhism and with the whole idea of rebirth. 

One has to be patient with that in terms of: when it is going to reach a point where we really take it seriously and really think in terms of, “Hey, what am I doing to ensure that I am going to have another precious human rebirth?” and,“ wanting to avoid things that just build up animal instincts – for example, every time I have some sexual desire, going off like a dog and sniffing.” These types of things. I find animal images very, very helpful for things like that.: “This is not what I want at all.” So, we restrain ourselves. 

Praying for a Precious Human Rebirth

The main cause for a precious human rebirth is ethical discipline. That needs to be supplemented with the other far-reaching attitudes – being generous, being patient, having perseverance (so, sticking with things), and mental stability, which,  (remember:, it’s not just concentration but also emotional stability.Lastly, we need), and discriminating awareness. We need to try to cultivate those more and more, a. And all of thatit has to be supplemented with prayer, – dedication prayers. We have to want to have another precious human rebirth. 

The power of prayer… a lot of us coming from biblical backgrounds might not be so comfortable with prayer because we always think in terms of praying to somebody: “Oh, dear Lord, give me a precious human rebirth. Buddha, give me a precious human rebirth,” or Tara or Chenrezig or whoever. It’s not that somebody else can give it to us – w. We are not praying to somebody, although very often, prayer involves inspiration from some sort of Buddha or Buddha-figure. 

Fundamentally, tThere has to be a strong wish to have a precious human rebirth. If we are into the habit of saying a dedication at the end of the day, which is very important to do – to have an intention in the morning and a dedication at night where– we think, “Whatever positive force has been built up today by what I have been doing, may it act as a cause not only for me to reach enlightenment and for everybody to reach enlightenment and to be able to continue having renunciation, bodhichitta, understanding of voidness, and getting deeper and deeper in each lifetime, but also to continue having precious human rebirths!” You have to want it. In fact, that is also one of the causes for being a tulku, a reincarnate monk – you have to pray for it. You have to want itand; you have to direct the energy in that direction. 

It is important to put in our dedication in the evening, the wish, “May I always have a precious human rebirth and have all the liberties and opportunities to practice and continue with the Dharma.” Then add to that as well, “May I be able to quickly and easily meet with the precious, correct teachings in all my lifetimes early. May I be able to study with the greatest teachers, His Holiness the Dalai Lama and others, and not have any obstacles to following the path and being able to continue.” It is an important thing to direct our energies each eveningfrom, to dedicate whatever positive things that we have done during the dayAlso. It is important to set that intention in the morning as well: “Whatever Iwe do, may it be for this purpose; may it be constructive”. 

This is what we need to have perseverance for, and need we need to take joy in doing – not to be lazy about it and not to put off until tomorrow thinking about these things or working in that direction. We always, in many ways, take for granted the type of situation that we have. When we have teachings available, when we have teachers available, we think, “Well, I am always going to have teachers and teachings available.,” Bbut that’s not the case. And when we live in peace, we also think that things are always going to be peaceful. But, you know, our city could be the next Baghdad or Lebanon or Kosovo or any of these places. So, it’s important to think, “May I go from light to light – always to go from precious human rebirth to precious human rebirths.” 

To review the verse:

[19] There are four (types of) persons: those who from light, end up in light; those who from darkness, end up in darkness; those who from light, end up in darkness; and those who from darkness, end up in light. Be like the first of these.

Any questions?

Participant: What happens when one just wishes, “May I become a better person”?

Dr. Berzin: Well, “May I become a better person” is quite good if you don’t specify the time limit on that! If you are vague, that will cover forever as opposed to “may I become a better person in this lifetime.” 

“May I continue to become a better and better person,” not just go one step forward and that’s it. I think the continuing aspect of this is important. “May I continue to grow, grow, and grow all the way to enlightenment, overcome my shortcomings and limitations, and realize all my potential.” This is what becoming a Buddha means. Even if we don’t have a clear idea of what it means to become a Buddha (– which is almost impossible –: to have a clear idea of what in the world that actually means), – we can think of going in that direction. This  is what refuge is all about; it’s: having that safe direction., “That’s what I am aiming for. ”f weI don’t have a clear idea of the final goal thenwe, though I can read about all the qualities and lists. But what that would actually mean… ahh!” It’s also difficult to imagine what it would mean to be liberated from samsara;v. Very difficult to imagine what that would actually look likemean. What I always find helpful is to use the example of His Holiness the Dalai Lama – if I could become like that, I would be quite satisfied. 

Participant: Even that is very far.

 I find it easier to say, “May I be a little bit better.” And the next day, I also see,: “I want to develop this a. And this other thing, I will really get rid of.,” Sso, little steps.

Dr. Berzin: Well, we take little steps. But don’t think that we can get rid of anger or impatience or things like that so easily.

Participant: I know, I know.

Dr. Berzin: But “May I be able to get through the next week at work…”

Participant: At least weyou can say, “Okay, next time when I get angry, I really want to notice it immediately. And then I will really try to…”

Dr. Berzin: OK, “Next time I get angry, I want to able to handle it better.” But now you’ve limited it to just the next time. What about the time after that? What I’m saying is, don’t limit the time-span of your aspiration. 

Remember the story of prayers when they are not specific. I told this story once . At the Ganden Monastery they have a throne, and they have what’s called the “Ganden Throne Holder.”–  One day, a cow walked in and sat on the throne. A disciple asked the teacher, “What’s this? Can you explain this?” The teacher said, “Well, in the last lifetime, this monk prayed ‘May I, in my next life, be able to sit on the Ganden Throne.’” ButSo he wasn’t specific enough in his prayer! So, wWe don’t want to limit our prayers just to the next time, and then after that become… 

When we offer prayers like this, I think it is helpful to remember the tenth chapter of Shantideva’s text, Engaging in Bodhisattva Behavior, Bodhicharyavatara. We spent six years in this class studying that text Bodhisattva Behavior,,,  so I am always making references to that. In the tenth chapter, you remember, all the prayers, the dedications that Shantideva gave achwere for everybody. They weren’t just for himself. WithI these types of dedications – “May I and everybody have precious human rebirths. May I and everybody be able to study with the greatest teachers and have all the opportunities” – our practice becomes much more of a Mahayana thing. Mahayana thing is not just, “May I reach enlightenment so that I, the great Buddha, the great bodhisattva, will save everybody,” but “May everybody get there.” OK? Good.

For perseverance, we need to match our actions to our thoughts.I, in other words, to match our actions with our motivation. Here, Nagarjuna writes:

[20] People are like mango fruits: unripe, but seemingly ripe; ripe, but seemingly unripe; unripe appearing unripe; and ripe appearing as ripe. Understand (them) to be like that.

This is typical Nagarjuna type of style. , now:“Unripe on the inside, ”“but seemingly ripe().”I:” refers to acting nicely on the outside but having bad motivation inside. “Ripe, but seemingly unripe” – in other words:wardly, you have good motivation on the inside, but externally, your actions are terrible. “Unripe appearing unripe” would be to have both terrible motivation as well as terrible behavior,. And “ripe appearing as ripe” would be to have good motivation as well as good behavior. We need to understand that people are like that. When we are like the last of these, our perseverance and our effort are the best. 

Also, the commentaries say that it’s best to associate with others who are like the last of these four as a support for perseverance. In other words, if we have examples of people who have fairly pure motivation and their actions match their motivation, it gives us encouragement as a support for us to act that way. According to yet another commentary, we need to have perseverance with all four of these types of people and not to lose courage. 

Really, it’s quite amazing how each of the commentaries gives quite a different interpretation of these lines. Actually, that’s quite helpful because that is the way that Buddha’s speech works – that we can get so many different levels of understanding from it. So, it is a very important thing: to match our motivation with our behavior, with our actions… to – match our thoughts with our actions. The word that’s being used here for “motivation” is also the same word for “thoughts,” – the way of thinking. 

There are some people who say such nice things and outwardly act so politely, but inside they’re cursing the other people and have all sorts of terrible thoughts of anger, desire, jealousy, and so on. On the outside, though, they act very nicely. There are others who have good motivation, but they can’t really put it into practice because their negative habits and instincts are so strong; their behavior is still very rude, very anger-some, and so on –: “I didn’t want to get angry, but I yelled at you. That wasn’t my intention.” So, good motivation, good intention, but in the end, acting terribly. Then, obviously, there are those who have both terrible motivation, – a terrible way of thinking, and terrible behavior as well. Then there are those who are positive in both respects. That, of course, is not always so easy to do, is it?

Participant: How do you find out about the motivation? You cannot slice the person open like a mango to see if they’re ripe.

Dr. Berzin: HWe don’t know what somebody else’s motivation is. 

Participant: Maybe just with comrades.

Dr. Berzin: We could look for good comrades – y? You get to know people. It’s hard to judge someone immediately. They might act very nicely to you – for instance, an insurance salesman who is trained to act nicely and to speak nicely, using all sorts of sweet words to ask about you and your familyto use  –, but actually, their motivation is to sell you something in order to make a profit. One has to really get to know the person and to look at other indications, and to be patient as well. In that example, well, OK, the guy has to make a living,. So, alright; then. I accept that situation. So in this way, you don’t get discouraged. This is what they said – that you don’t get discouraged. You persevere anyway because there are going to be people in each of these four categories. 

However, in terms of ourselves, we need to try to be like the last – to have good motivation, to /think kindly and act kindly. So, the two together. Again, it requires being mindful, and when we start to have negative thoughts, to try to change that. 

Working on the Behavior First, Then the Motivation

Now, here’s a good question: which needs to come first in terms of our training, good motivation or good behavior? 

Participant: Maybe you can do it for both ways.

Dr. Berzin: Well, where do you start?

Participant: It’s like the hen and the egg.

Dr. Berzin: No, it’s not like the hen and the egg. The answer is quite clear in the lam-rim.

Participant: Behavior.

Dr. Berzin: That’s right,: behavior. If you look at the lam-rim, it’s quite clear that even if your motivation is just quite selfish –: to get a better rebirth – one behaves correctly and constructively. Only later will the motivation become one of wanting to help others, become love and compassion. 

Participant: [Inaudible]

Dr. Berzin: Well, we have the initial scope, intermediate scope, and advanced scopes of motivation. Ethical discipline comes in the initial scope when your motivation is just to have another human rebirth. My point is that I think that even if you don’t feel particularly loving and compassionate toward somebody, you help them anyway, as a start. As you get accustomed to helping others, speaking nicely and not yelling at people and so on, eventually, your heart will soften as well, and your motivation will improve. On the other hand, if you wait until you develop complete love and compassion for everybody before you stop yelling at people, you’re going to have to wait a very long time. 

Participant: The other way is also too theoretical – to try to change, t

To have this attitude toward the world and hoping that maybe one day you will do some spiritual work.

Dr. Berzin: Right. It’s very theoretical just to work on developing love before we actually stop acting destructively. 

Participant: That would be something like behavior therapy or “behaviorism” – that through changing your behavior and changing your methods, the inside will then follow your outside.

Dr. Berzin: Is it a type of behavior therapy? I suppose, in a certain sense. But I don’t know that it would automatically work if you didn’t also work on your attitude. That’s a difficult question because now I’m thinking in terms of psychotherapy. In psychotherapy, if  somebody has very low self-esteem and is very destructive and self-destructive, one of the best and most helpful things for them is to let them do something for you. If they can give something, it demonstrates to them that they are worthy, that they have something to give and that they’re not just a terrible piece of excrement, which,  (if they believe that, then they’ll act like that). That’s often recommended. If you have a teenage child who is always very destructive and so on, you let them do something for you. Even if they do it wrong, it doesn’t matter. Let them do something so they can get a sense that they have something to offer. In a sense, that will start to change their attitude about themselves andwill start to change their motivation. 

Participant: Or get a pet, an animal, to take care of. 

Dr. Berzin: Having a pet to take care of gives them – especially lonely people, older people – a sense of self-worth, a sense that  –they have something to offer. But I think that from a Buddhist point of view, we would also work on the motivation with meditation methods. But the first thing is to change our behavior, even if we don’t feel that it’s sincere. 

Participant: There is a difference, no? Behavioral therapy is a little bit superficial. It provides a sort of quick change for people that are in dangerous situations, whereas psychotherapy works more on the causes and its bases. I think Buddhism would be more like psychotherapy, in a sense, but you still need to act appropriately from the very beginning – to change your behavior and work at the same time on the basis.

Dr. Berzin: Yes. We work on changing the behavior first and then on the basis. But, of course, it’s not the same as psychotherapy because, in Buddhism, we’re not thinking just in terms of this lifetime. Also, there is a much stronger commitment in Buddhism in terms of refuge, in terms of – the five layperson’s vows, – and also t.The bodhisattva vows, bodhichitta vows. …It’sThese require a bigger commitment than going into therapy.

Participant: I wonder iIf one would just behave in a completely constructive manner, basically, what would come out, the reulst of that, is that they would be a humanitarian person, right?

Dr. Berzin: Right.

Participant: But how, just would the motivation to have good future lives come from that alone if you don’t already believe in ?

Afuture lives… and also for enlightenment?

Dr. Berzin: Well, this is what I said –: that in certain cases, just changing the behavior can have an effect on the mind. In general, we start with the behavior, and then, within that context, we try to get the motivation to be more and more sincere. It’s not going to work that you are going to automatically want to aim for liberation and enlightenment. No way. 

Participant: Sometimes isn’t it stressed that also the motivation comes prior? Maybe not prior to behavior, but I remember His Holiness once said that if things fail, it matters very much what the motivation was because the motivation will have its own results.

Dr. Berzin: That’s right.

Participant: You also could cause success with this method.

Dr. Berzin: That’s right. That has to do with the success of trying to help somebody. If it works,  that’s very good. B, but don’t think that it’s just due to yourself because, obviously, it’s due to the other person’s karma as well. Also, if it fails, don’t think, “It’s my fault,” because, whether it fails or not also depends on the other person’s karma. So, at least, if you had a good motivation and tried, it will have some benefit for you. That’s true. T; that’s very true.

For instance, Karston and Daniel, you are –  helping handicap people. You are helping others. Now, mind you, both of you have a Buddhist background, so I think there is some sort of good motivation that’s in there. But in terms of the other workers and so on – do they have a motivation of love and compassion for these people, or are they just doing their jobs? 

Participant: I think it’s often mixed with both.

Dr. Berzin: In other words, does helping these people have a positive effect on your mind? Or does it just get you completely fed up and annoyed so that you can’t wait to get out of there and feel resentment for these people? 

Participant: I can see that with some of my colleagues. They get really impatient and complain, “I have to do this, this, and this,” because the people are disabled, you know?. I really don’t know what their motivation is. 

Dr. Berzin: Right. Well, then that becomes an interesting question. Is it better to work in a place like that with a bad motivation, just to get money, or not to work helping handicap people at all? 

Participant: They still do constructive actions because they arebasically helping them, even if they have destructive states of mind by being annoyed. But still, they do the basic cleaning, etc.

Dr. Berzin: Right. So, they do help. 

Participant: So, the outward behavior is constructive.

Dr. Berzin: The behavior is constructive, but the motivation is negative. Well, we had that, remember, in our discussion of karma – that the action and motivation will ripen separately. Action has one result; the motivation has another result a. And the motivation will affect the strength of the result of the action. 

Participant: I think mostly that when you do something positive, you get positive feedback, and that , helps to build up apositive motivation.

Dr. Berzin: Right. If you do something positive, you get positive feedback, and that helps to build up the motivation. That’s what I was saying by letting

Inaudible

...a destructive teenager do something good that builds up their self-confidence. 

Participant: In the case of these people, they act destructively, actually, when they are impatient for whatever reason.

Dr. Berzin: Well, that’s true. If somebody is helping a disabled person and they become impatient and start yelling at them or hit them, they, obviously, are not helping them. 

Participant: That’s not acting constructively. Even if they are really annoyed, they can still act with good manners. I have friends who sometimes are annoyed with the disabled people, but they still try to act kindly. I think they get around these difficult situations or they…. When you act destructively, you get negative feedback. S, so, it gets worse, I think. Therefore, everything really depends on the behavior first.

Dr. Berzin: That’s what I think – that the behavior comes first. If somebody asks us to wash the dishes or to help them move house or something like that and we really don’t feel like it, nevertheless, it’s positive to do it. And then, in the course of doing it, we can try to work on our motivation of not get annoyed. “Okay. Now I’m doing it, so let’s try to make it as positive an experience as possible.” I think that’s the only way. 

Participant: Ein Soldat?

Dr. Berzin: A soldier.

Participant: [In German]

Dr. Berzin: Well, a soldier is not doing something positive. What’s a soldier doing? 

Participant: [In German]. 

Dr. Berzin: But now we are talking about a different situation of acting destructively and whether we: can have a constructive motivation while acting destructively. 

Participant: [In German] 

Dr. Berzin: Well, let’s take an example. Take the example of the current war between Israel and Lebanon – Hezbollah. The Israel soldiers are killing an awful lot of people, but their motivation is undoubtedly to protect their homeland, to protect their family against attacks and so on. So, you can say that they have a good motivation. But remember – we had this in our discussion of karma – there is a difference between the causal motivation and the contemporaneous motivation. In other words, the causal motivation is what brings you in the direction of the action. “Okay, I am going to protect my homeland and family from attacks.” But then, what is your motivation at the time you actually act? That contemporaneous motivation is much stronger in terms of its effect. When you are actually shooting, it’s very hard for your motivation not to be anger and hatred. 

Participant: If you give children toy guns to play with, it affects their mentality and way of thinking. So, the action has an effect on the thought.

Dr. Berzin: tRight. SIt does. We need to examine our motivation for giving them toy guns in the first place.W [meaning, we have to examine the motivation?] 

As I say, the steps seem to be, first, just to help. Whether we feel like helping or not, we help. “I don’t feel like giving to the beggar at the U-Bahn, but I give anyway. I’m not going to be so lazy that I don’t even look in my pocket to see if I have change.” Usually, it’s laziness. It’s not that we are not generous; we’re just too lazy. At least, I know that it’s often thatso in my case. I mean, I could give the coins; it doesn’t make any difference whatsoever, b. But, usually, I’m too lazy. So,: one gives in any case. A and then we work on the motivation more and more so that even without forcing ourselves,our we would want, from our own side, to give. We are talking about the steps. Obviously, if we have a strong motivation, the action will be even stronger, and we’ll do even more action. But I was just asking the question, :“Where does one start?” WeY start with just doing. 

Participant: There was this campaign when there was the football Champions League. They said that they trained people to be polite, to help the strangers and, not to shout at them, but to show them the way. It’s just the first step.

Dr. Berzin: Right, exactly. So, even if the motivation wasn’t there, its good effect certainly  was. It had a very good effect, not only on the foreigners, on the impression that they had of Germany, but it also on the German people. I think that it lifted their self-esteem when they saw that other people didn’t just consider them Nazis. 

Participant: Also, I think, even bus drivers are affected, when they are helpful and  people say, “Oh, thank you,” – that this is something positive for them. 

Dr. Berzin: Sure, it’s very good. It’s sometimes difficult when you feel that nobody is sincere about it and that it is just an act. There are some cultures, like the Japanese culture, where people are super, super polite. Then you wonder if there is any feeling behind it because they don’t show their feelings. That can also get on your nerves.

Participant: What about American culture? Americans are a

lways friendly. AmericansThey leave a positive impression, at least.

Dr. Berzin: Most Americans are friendly, and they talk very easily and quickly to strangers. That’s for sure. Is there a motivation there? I don’t know. I don’t know what the mentality is. What would be the mentality behind that? A certain openness. There is a certain openness in the American way of dealing with people.

Inaudible

Commitment is something else, but talking is easy.

Participant: Actually, the –T US is actually very nice. People are willing to talk.

Dr. Berzin: Yes. Commitment is something else, but talking is easy.

Participant: At least the talking has a positive effect – on Karston, for instance. It makes others happy. Even if the motivation is not terribly high, it has a good effect.

Dr. Berzin: Right.

Participant: So, it’s fine.

Participant: In some cases, what I found in America was that people start talking to each other very easily, but it comes down to one point, which is aa kind of comparing of life situations, a? Is  kind of competition, as if to find out,in “Am I better than you?” or… 

Participant: “How much to you make?”

Participant: Just to find out about these things, maybe. I don’t know. It’s one of my impressions. 

Dr. Berzin: What about Germans? 

Participant: Same thing.

Dr. Berzin: Germans don’t speak. I have a neighbor, – a German neighbor who lives on the other side of the back courtyard not very far away, only ten meters away or something like that. Their window faces my window. They sit at a desk at that window all day long, and I sit on the other side. I don’t sit there all day long, but my kitchen table faces this window, so I see this person every single day. Aand I am sure that this person sees me. But no way, when I pass this person in the street, is there any acknowledgement whatsoever of recognition of each other, a “hello” or anything. And this has been for – I don’t know – two years? Every single day I see this person, and they see me, Sso, I am afraid! I am actually afraid to say “hello,” I must say. 

Participant: So, there, – until you get the motivation, you don’t act. 

Participant: One also could say there is a motivation. Maybe the motivation is fear or skepticism about strangers – keeping them at a distance, or just trying to keep things in order, which results in the action of not acting.

Dr. Berzin: Well, the Polish are very, very open. 

Participant: They would drink, and they would invite you to a party!

Participant: Yeseah, I was surprised; m. Another example is mMy Ecuadorian [how does this relate to the Polish?] brother-in-law. He made so many friends with the Greeks in the area where he and my sister were living. We were all very surprised because he was talking to all kinds of people and saying“hello, “Parakalo,” (please) and giving handshakes topeople c: people at the bakery, etc.

Participant:  The only secret is that Germans are actually very friendly, but they are in a state of standby. You have to turn them on.

Dr. Berzin: So, we need to match, as it says here, the inner motivation, – the inner way of thinking, with the behavior. It would be best to have a combination of that, but as we’ve seen, it is something that one works up to having. And we are certainly going to meet people of all four types. According to one commentary, this verse is talking about not being discouraged when we meet people who are nice but not sincere at all, or people who are trying hard but still act very terribly, as well as people who are just complete scoundrels.

Participant: I think we should also try not to label people because of one action or one time when they behaved badly, because we can’t say that judgement will always be rightw. We can’t see the inner, only the outside.

Dr. Berzin: That’s right. It’s important not to put people into categories and freeze them there. On the other hand, one also has to recognize certain patterns that are there and to act accordingly. 

Here’s a question: Now, what do you do when somebody offers to help but they don’t really want to? They’re just sort of doing you a grand favor of helping, but their motivation is not pure. Do you accept their help?

Participant: Maybe for a very small task. 

Participant: If I really needed it, I would say “yes.”  It depends on the situation, I would say. 

Dr. Berzin: Depends on the situation.

Participant: You mean if you would accept?

Dr. Berzin: Yes. We are talking about not getting discouraged with this type of people. Let’s say you meet somebody that says, “OK, I’ll help you move. OK, I’ll help you do that,” but you know that they don’t want to and that they probably will complain. 

Participant: Usually, in countries like India or Nepal,  – even here –, if you always waited until everyone had a good motivation, you would end up nowhere.

Dr. Berzin: Right!

Participant: Nothing would happen.

Dr. Berzin: That’s right, you’d end up nowhere.

Participant: But it depends, really, on how well you know that person. Maybe, if you know that person well, you could find out what they really want,. Maybe they’d have more enthusiasm if they could do things they actually wanted to do, even if it came out that they didn’t really want to help you move.

Dr. Berzin: Well, how do you deal with it? Let’s say you are moving, and you need help from people. You can’t do it by yourself, so you ask people to help. You know that they don’t really want to help and they’re not really happy to do it, but, “OK, we’ll help you.” They feel obligated to help you. How do you deal with that? 

Participant: Even if you accept the help, still, it might make you feel depressed. 

Dr. Berzin: Do you accept their help, or do you say, “That’s OK. Don’t bother”?

Participant: One can’t really say because it might change if they accept even with “Uh, OK.” But maybe, when they are actually helping, their energy would start running and they’d be happy, meeting all the other people. That quite often happens. Or maybe it’s best, then, to get professional help.

Dr. Berzin: Now, that’s another solution. If you have the money, you just pay professional people. There are people of my parents’ generation, for instance, who don’t want to accept the help of anybody. “Don’t do me any favors. I’ll do it myself” – this type of attitude.

Participant: W…which is terrible because it blocks every kind of generosity.

Dr. Berzin: Right, so…  

Participant: One solution would be that to accept and then try to make the situation better for them.

Dr. Berzin: Right. Exactly, exactly.

Participant: Well, you could ask for them to  help just with one side of the move, not the full move – something like that.

Dr. Berzin: You try to make the situation better. You serve nice food, serve beer, or… 

Participant: Or you say,: “You’re really good, so helpful, and I appreciate it so much.”

Dr. Berzin: Play some nice music… 

Participant: And they end up having fun.

Participant: That is the solution.

Dr. Berzin: Right. That’s probably the best solution.

Participant: One time when, I hired three professional movers because I thought it might be too much for other people to help with.

Dr. Berzin: Well, you were on the fifth floor.

Participant: So, that was quite helpful.

Dr. Berzin: Right. So, if you have the money, it’s better to pay somebody, of course. If you have the money. If you don’t have the money, that’s something else.  

In any case, we do meet people of all these different types. We need to persevere, notto get discouraged, andto deal with it. And in ourselves as well, we try to work toward this ideal of having both the motivation and the actions be positive. So that’s this Verse 20.

[20] People are like mango fruits: unripe, but seemingly ripe; ripe, but seemingly unripe; unripe appearing unripe; and ripe appearing as ripe. Understand (them) to be like that.

That concludes the discussion of joyful perseverance and brings us to the end of our hour. Next week, we’ll start the discussion of the fifth far-reaching attitude, which is mental stability, or concentration. What is quite interesting here is that Nagarjuna starts his discussion in the same way that Shantideva started it many centuries later. As I said, a lot of Shantideva’s ideas are modeled after Nagarjuna’s. S

The big discussion in the beginning is getting rid of desire, which is a form of attachment. It is the main cause of mental wandering and is the biggest cause of distraction, which is the biggest obstacle for gaining concentration. So, Nagarjuna starts in that way. As you’ll recall, Shantideva had a lot to say about that as well before he got into how to develop concentration on the actual meditations concerning the exchange of self and others. So, we’ll begin that discussion next week.