LTF 27: Avoiding Distraction by Partners; 3 Types to Avoid

We start with attachment to our spouses. Here, the king is advised as to the types of wives that he should avoid and the types of wives that are good to take. Obviously, the king is able to take many wives in his situation. However, I think we can apply this not only to female partners, whether it’s a wife or a girlfriend, but also to male partners such as a husband or a boyfriend. I think the qualities that are described here in terms of which ones to avoid and which ones to be close to are general guidelines that apply to anybody looking for a partner in life. 

We start with Verse 36:

[36] Avoid (taking) these three (types of) wives, those whose natures are: to associate with your enemies, like assassins, to be contemptuous of their husbands, like baronesses, or to rob and steal even little things, like thieves.

A Wife Who Associates with Your Enemies

Let’s look at each of these qualities. The first of these groupings are wives whose nature is “to associate it with your enemies, like assassins.” What does “enemies” mean here? Does it really mean a literal enemy? Here, it is obviously speaking very strongly in terms of someone who is like an assassin, someone who associates with the other side in a war and who plots with them, or whatever. That sounds a little bit like a Shakespeare play or a Greek tragedy.

What About Partners Who Follow Different Spiritual Paths?

I wonder, though. What about in our ordinary lives? What would this refer to? Can you think of anything? What about a partner who follows a different spiritual path from our own? Does that cause problems in a relationship? Is it compatible or not compatible? What do you think?

Participant: It should be.

Dr. Berzin: It should be compatible? 

Participant: Yes.

Dr. Berzin: Do you think that’s true of all spiritual paths? What about a fundamentalist path that says, “We are the only ones that have the truth, and everyone else is going to go to hell. They’re just being led by the devil.” 

Participant: That doesn’t function.

Dr. Berzin: Right. That doesn’t function if your partner is into that type of spiritual trip and you’re into something different. That wouldn’t function at all, would it? 

Participant: That’s if you can call that “spiritual,”  actually.

Dr. Berzin: Whether we call it “spiritual” or not, this is what I am referring to. There are certainly a lot of people following fundamentalist Christian religions in America who feel that way. I would think that in the Islamic world, as well, there would be a lot of people who would be intolerant of a partner that followed another religion, who wouldn’t find that compatible. There are certainly people in the Jewish religion that become very, very upset if their daughter goes out with somebody who is not Jewish or their son brings home a non-Jewish partner. Definitely. 

Participant: But then, it’s the problem of the family, not of the couple.

Dr. Berzin: But what happens if your family is really, really against your partnership? Then what do you do? 

Participant: It is also very often the case that the disapproval is not because their child’s partner is from another religion but because they are not from the same class.

Dr. Berzin: Right, this is another example. There are also often problems if they come from a different class, a different race, a different color, etc.

Participant: A different caste…

Dr. Berzin: A different caste, in India. In the West, it’s not strictly caste; it’s more in terms of nationality. Certainly, there are people in Europe who still consider themselves to come from the aristocracy or nobility as opposed to the working class. You certainly still have that in England. People who come from wealth look down on those who come from poor working families. 

Participant: So, there are actually barriers? Does this mean they can’t…

Dr. Berzin: Yeah, there are certain barriers, and some young people who are very snobbish continue to hold those barriers. That, certainly, is still the case. I went to very elite universities, Harvard and Princeton. Certainly, many people there looked down on the local people in town, “the townies,” they were called. If you went out with a townie, that was really low class. So, that was certainly the case at those places. 

I know in my own family, my sister’s first husband was not Jewish, and my father absolutely freaked out and wouldn’t go to the wedding. He wouldn’t see her or have anything to do with her until, actually, her first child was born. The baby won him over, actually. That caused a lot of suffering for my sister. It caused a lot of suffering for my mother, too. So, what do you do in a situation where you are close to your family, and the family really freaks out and is disappointed and doesn’t approve? Also, it’s not only having a partner who follows a different spiritual path; becoming a monk or a nun could pose problems as well.

Participant: I think one has to fight. One cannot just take it and say, “OK, I give in, and I just take a nice Jewish partner,” or something. Otherwise, things never will change.

Dr. Berzin: Right. So, you think that you have to fight that and follow your own path of what feels right, and that the parents will have to deal with that. However, then it becomes a problem when you raise your children. Which religion do you raise them in? Do you raise them in both? Do you raise them in neither? What often happens is that you raise them in nothing and say that when they are old enough, they can choose. I really wonder. I don’t have the answer. I’m just bringing this up for discussion.

Participant: I think that this example of your sister shows that it can be reconciled. If you just give in on the first uproar, there’s no chance of it working. Anyway, this is not the life of the parents: it’s your life. If you like somebody, one can’t let that go on forever – that separation. 

Dr. Berzin: Sometimes, eventually, there is reconciliation, but not in all cases. I think, again, it depends on the society. In an Indian society, where normally you would live with the parents after you got married, it certainly wouldn’t work if the parents didn’t approve. But there, the parents make arranged marriages, so that’s something different from this. 

Even within a partnership, can you really have total equanimity with the other person when they follow a different spiritual path, even if it’s a different path within Buddhism? Or if you are Buddhist and your partner goes to church every Sunday, do you go to church with them? Do you not go to church with them? Do they take the children to church? I mean, how does that work on a practical level? Or will there always be a sort of competition as to whose beliefs are right? Or does it work better when both partners go to church together or to the same Dharma center, and so on, and have the same spiritual teacher? I think it requires a great deal of tolerance and a great deal of equanimity to accept and respect the other person’s different tradition within a relationship. I think a lot of people don’t have that.

Participant: I can remember when I was young that there was this fight between the Catholics and the Protestants. The Protestants really looked down on the Catholics. I don’t know how the Catholics were, but there was a lot of animosity. Then, if there was a couple between a Protestant and a Catholic, it was considered quite terrible. But people really fought it out, and I think now it is not so much of a problem anymore. There might be cases where it’s still an issue, but on the whole, there is much more tolerance.

Dr. Berzin: Right, so now you find more tolerance in mixed couples, Catholic and Protestant. I see it here, too. Certainly, that has developed. And certainly, there are also more couples that are Caucasian and African – black and white. You see that more and more, much more than you saw in the 1950s. So, that progress is there. 

There is one aspect of this, which is the tolerance of the society and the families, and then, there is the other aspect, which is whether there will be problems within the couple’s relationship. I think that it’s purely a societal issue when the two people don’t follow their religions – that they just happen to have been born Catholic and Protestant but don’t really actively follow that path. I think that in a case like that, it’s not such a problem. What happens when they are really, really into strongly following their religions, though? For example, what do you do at Christmas time? Where do you take the kids? Do you take them to this church or that church? 

Participant: Personally, I would celebrate everything.

Dr. Berzin: So, you go to mass in both. Or you alternate: one year one thing, one year the other thing.

Participant: Both. Why can’t you go to the church and celebrate Christmas? Personally, I don’t see a big problem with that, actually. Maybe other people see a problem, but I go to Easter with my wife and to Christmas. 

Dr. Berzin: Would you have your child baptized? 

Participant: That, I think, we would have to discuss!

Dr. Berzin: And go to catechism school?

Participant: Catechism school… yeah These are all things that really depend a lot on your partner.

Dr. Berzin: And what do you tell the child about God when your wife is making strong  references to Gods and that whole thing? 

Participant: Basically, I would try to give a kind of pluralistic approach. I would say, “OK, I have this view and your mother has this view. There are still other views. Maybe, you can look at them all later.”

Dr. Berzin: But isn’t that very confusing for a child, especially a young child?

Participant: Could be.

Dr. Berzin: I have a friend who was asking me this. He has a daughter who is two years old. His wife comes from a Catholic background and he is undecided. He is tending more toward the scientific thing – that after death, there is nothing. He thinks that maybe there’s rebirth, and maybe he is leaning into the Buddhist thing. But then, he says, “What do I tell my two-year-old daughter when the cat dies? That the cat has gone to heaven? That the cat has just become nothing? That the cat, maybe, will be reborn as a person? Or as another cat?” This was the question that he asked me and saying that he was having difficulty. It was a question within himself, of course, but more important was the question about what he should tell his two-year old daughter.

Participant: Even if you are not really convinced, if you have a two-year old who is really in tears and upset, you say, “Look! It’s in heaven. It’s in cats’ heaven.” You have to comfort the child and find a very practical answer.

Participant: Or you say, “Oh, it was lie. Sorry.”

Participant: You say it’s in cats’ heaven.

Dr. Berzin: So, you think it is OK to make up something, like Santa Clause – that it’s in cats’ heaven. Well, that’s better than giving a teaching on voidness – the lack of a true self of the cat! 

Participant: One should make it practical.

Dr. Berzin: I don’t know. What do you think? 

Participant: Es ist schwierig. Den Trost  ein kleines Kind – immer wichtig.

Dr. Berzin: What’s always important with a small child?

Participant: To console.

Dr. Berzin: To console if they’re really upset. Yes, you have to say something. But you have a choice. You could say that it goes to heaven or that it’s going to maybe be reborn as a person and that maybe you’ll be friends with the cat later. 

Participant: Or you just simply say, “Don’t worry,” and you give them some candy and…

Dr. Berzin: Well, “The cat has gone to nothing. We’ve flushed it down the toilet and – finished.”  The point is that if you want to say one thing to the child and your partner wants to say another thing, it’s a problem. So, you are going to have to decide on one thing to tell the child. That’s the point. 

Participant: Actually, I’m not sure about that because when the animal of a friend of mine died, the child asked, “What’s going to happen now?” The mother said, “Well, you know there are different views on this. Some people say this happens; some people say that happens.” Then, the child said, “Oh, I believe it will be reborn.” The child was four years old, and, already, the child could choose.

Dr. Berzin: So, if you give a choice…

Participant: Yeah, the child chose, and the crisis was solved.

Dr. Berzin: Right. So, your partner would have to agree. But what if your partner insists on the heaven view –that it’s now an angel by the side of God, with wings and singing? But there can be problems not only with spiritual views, but in just general. For instance, if one is a hard-line communist, and the other is a Bush type of democrat, they’re not going to go together very well. 

Participant: How do they come together in the first place?

Dr. Berzin: Sex. How do they come together? Sex. 

Participant: But you don’t have to make children. 

Dr. Berzin: Well, even if you don’t have children, if you have different political views and you really feel strongly about them, you can get into big arguments. Big arguments. There are some people who are attracted to a partner purely for physical reasons. Then, after a while, they find that they have really nothing in common and that their views are really quite different. One likes to go to fancy French restaurants and the other likes McDonalds. What do you do? One is a vegetarian and the other is a very heavy meat eater, and the vegetarian really gets very upset with meat in the house and doesn’t want to have the smell of meat cooking in the house. I think this is the point here – that if the people are incompatible on these levels, it could be problematic. 

Participant: But, I think, as you said, these people will not go together. On the other hand, you can always find something over which to fight. If you are in a partnership, you always find something.

Dr. Berzin: That’s true. One likes to sleep with the window open, and one likes to sleep with the window closed. That could be a big problem.

I think it requires a great deal of tolerance and equanimity, as I said, not to feel, “I’m right, and the way you’re doing it is wrong. I’ll tolerate it, but I’m right.” 

So, this is the first point: “avoid taking a wife whose nature is to associate with your enemies, like assassins.”

A Contemptuous Wife – Bossy and Controlling

Then, second point is to avoid taking wives are who are contemptuous of their husbands, like baronesses. “Contemptuous” means to look down on someone and to be really very nasty, like the baroness, the Queen of Spades, in Alice in Wonderland. Do you know Alice in Wonderland? The Queen of Spades would say, “Off with their heads!” That was her recurring line. So, it’s this bossy type of partner. It’s a bossy wife who dominates you, and then the husband just grovels, “Yes, dear; yes, dear.” The macho husband is the other side of it.

Participant: Some men like that.

Dr. Berzin: Some men are like that. Some women are like that. 

Participant: No, they like that.

Dr. Berzin:  Oh, some women like it.

Participant: And some men.

Dr. Berzin: But do you think that it is a mature, healthy relationship to have a bossy partner? What happens when you have low self-esteem, low sense of confidence, and you like for the other person to do everything for you – to take care of everything for you? 

If you recall, we have a friend. The husband did absolutely everything. Absolutely everything. This woman didn’t have to take care of any practical thing in her life. Then, the husband died. Now she is completely lost. She doesn’t know how to do anything – doesn’t know how to take care of herself or anything. She’s completely helpless. I don’t think that’s very good. 

So, this is what Nagarjuna is saying – that there needs to be some sort of equality in terms of respect. Then again, I don’t know if he really is talking about that because Nagarjuna is writing in classical India where the background is Hindu and everybody is following the example of Sita and Ram. Sita is the wonderful wife who just serves the husband and lives just to serve him. The thing here is not to be… “contemptuous,” I think, is a strong word. It means being very bossy, looking down on the other one and yelling at them all the time, “You’re stupid; I’m better.” 

I think that contemptuousness is part is the main emphasis here because there could be inequalities in a relationship in terms of, let’s say, one being more intelligent and practical than the other and knowing how to do things and the other person not being capable, not knowing how to do things – not knowing how to do tax returns or taking care of whatever. I think that it also requires great tolerance when there is a big difference in the of level of intelligence. When you are the one who is more intelligent, it requires great tolerance not to boss the less intelligent one around – to take over and do everything for them. I think there’s a great tendency to do that, even if you are not contemptuous, even if you are benign. The one that’s less intelligent could feel, “Hey, I can manage, even though it might not be as efficient as the way that you do it. I can manage. Have some respect for me.” That’s not easy in a relationship, is it? What do you think? 

Participant: It can also be quite a good team – that someone in the relationship can do things better than the other. Then it can really balance out.

Dr. Berzin: Well, then there’s a balance. If one side can do one area better and the other side can do another area better, that’s OK. But how do you avoid that being a medieval type of relationship where this one can keep the house better and cook and clean better, and the other one is better at taking care of the finances and the other things? Then one becomes a servant, basically. “Well, you’re a much better servant than I am.” That doesn’t work very nicely, does it? 

Participant: Let’s say that one person in the relationship is more intelligent than the other. How can the intelligent one become aware that something is going wrong? If they’re not getting intelligent feedback in the way that an intelligent person would normally give it, how would they catch their own mistakes? 

Dr. Berzin: How does the intelligent person get feedback? I think it’s when the other person lets you do everything and you start to control everything. I think that when one partner tries to control everything in a relationship – where you’re going to eat, what you’re going to do, everything – that’s unhealthy. 

Participant: Even if the partner is very satisfied with this?

Dr. Berzin: Even if the partner is very satisfied? Well, then you make the other partner dependent on you. Then, if you leave or you die, the other is completely lost. I think this dependency aspect is not healthy because, usually, the dependency aspect goes together with somebody who is a control freak, who wants to control everything and likes to have somebody dependent on them. 

That’s difficult. Again, I think it requires a tremendous amount of maturity to respect the person who is less able to do things. Also, it’s difficult if there is a big difference in age and the older person just has a lot more experience in life and the younger person doesn’t have that. There also is a tendency, then, for the older person to control. Or maybe the younger person would say that the older person is just stupid and doesn’t know how to do anything, and then the younger person controls.

Participant: I think everybody has weak points and strong points. Even very intelligent people sometimes are really not practical people. They are very intelligent, but not practical at all. So, the partner can maybe be a good fit there. Maybe they’re better at more practical things.

Dr. Berzin: Well, then it works well. The partner might be very intelligent, but not very practical, and the one that is less intelligent might be more practical. So, it works. Then each side has a strong point which is necessary.

Participant: If the other one is more practical, then the more intelligent one doesn’t have much of a ground for feeling superior or getting frustrated.  

Dr. Berzin: Well, then they have to not be contemptuous. In other words, they have to be able to acknowledge and respect the strong point of the other one. Don’t they?

Participant: Yeah, but they are sort of frustrated because they are really dependent for certain things that depend on a practical person. 

Dr. Berzin: Yeah, they may depend on the practical person. But I know relationships in which people say, “Come on. I managed to live my life before I met you, so I am able to take care of myself. It might not be as efficient as the way you do it, but that’s my way of doing things. It’s been OK for me.” The problem is when one person comes in and says, “My way of doing it is better.” 

I think you have to compromise in certain situations. For example, I like things to be very planned ahead. I know that the train goes here, and I get off there. I’ve looked at the schedule and I know when I have to get the next train, etc. Everything is in order – Alles in Ordnung, as we would say. I’ve traveled with people who like to be completely spontaneous and not have a schedule or anything. In that type of situation, you need to see that sometimes one thing works, and other times, something else works. Let’s say that the train is late and you lose your connection. Then, the spontaneous person is very good for that: “Well, let’s just go outside and hitchhike,” which I might never think to do. Or they could say, “Let’s just spontaneously get on this train because it goes in that direction, and then we’ll see what happens as we go further on.” That might, in fact, work very well. So, I think you need to  compromise, to see that both ways can function in different situations.

You guys traveled together for many months in Asia. Is the way you do things the same or different? 

Participant: Traveling in Asia, you cannot plan ahead, so you need to be spontaneous. I like to plan my travels very much, but I became really relaxed in this point. In India, you can never rely on any plans.

Dr. Berzin: Right. In India, for sure, you can’t rely on any plans. 

Participant: I like planning and having things organized, but if you like that, then don’t get this guide that I got. I was traveling in Asia, and after one day, he totally overthrew my whole schedule. It was good. I think, in a way, he inspired me to kind of relax. Somehow, we all got along quite well because we were open to his ideas. So, it was quite good, I think.

Dr. Berzin: Right. In that sense, it can work, but not like the way in which Nagarjuna is suggesting that you avoid, which is somebody being contemptuous and looking down on your way of doing it as stupid: “I’m right; your way will never work. You’re an idiot; you always…”

Participant: It is really a pity because you’re closed to a certain path of ideas, actually. If you always think, “My way is right,” you lose sight of the whole spectrum or even more.

Dr. Berzin: It’s difficult. I think of my aunt and uncle. My aunt is always looking to the third person in the room, referring to her husband – “That man. He’s impossible.” Impossible is when he disagrees with her or won’t give in to her bullying.

Participant: They are still married?

Dr. Berzin: They’re still married after 60 years!

Participant: Impossible! 

Participant: That’s quite common.

Dr. Berzin: That’s quite common. 

So, this is something to avoid, Nagarjuna says. 

A Wife Who Steals from You

The next is to avoid taking a wife “who robs and steals even little things, like thieves.” In a partnership, what is the role of private property – “This is mine”? Do you have separate bank accounts or a shared bank account, or do you have both? That, I think, is a big problem in many marriages, isn’t it? One partner complains, “You spend too much on the credit card. You’re always going shopping.” 

Participant: Two separate bank accounts.

Dr. Berzin: Two separate bank accounts plus a common one for paying the rent and these types of things, maybe. 

Participant: The wife should have a little pocket money.

Dr. Berzin: But should it be that the husband gives the wife an allowance, a certain amount of money each week like a child? 

Participant: Fifty euros is enough.

Dr. Berzin: Or does she have to go out and earn it? 

Participant: There are women who have money, and they should protect it. They should have their own bank account. I know two cases where the partner took all the money from the bank account, the common bank account, and left the partner completely devastated. Both women survived, but it was really disastrous.

Dr. Berzin: Right, very disastrous. Or your partner uses your computer, and it crashes. 

Participant: A computer is a small thing.

Dr. Berzin: Really? Do you share the same computer, or do both have to have your own computers? How easy is it to share money, property, food, and possessions with somebody else? And when there is a divorce. Who gets the children? And how often can you see the children? That also becomes a big problem, doesn’t it? 

Participant: But you can’t avoid  changes from the start.

Dr. Berzin: You can’t avoid these things. So, then to become a monk or a nun is the conclusion. 

Participant: Make a good marriage contract, like I discussed with Monica today.

Dr. Berzin: I see. You’ve discussed a marriage contract with Monica, a good business contract.  

Participant: Yeah. We’ve discussed having separate accounts.

Dr. Berzin: But it could be a big problem, really, if you feel that your partner is stealing from you or spending too much money. 

Participant: “Did you take my pen?”

Dr. Berzin: “Did you take the cake in the refrigerator? I was saving that last piece for myself for tomorrow!” 

Participant: Monica is quite generous. Complaining about those kinds of things is very stupid because generosity, of course, is the first paramita.

Participant: I feel it quite frequently. Yesterday, I bought a nice loaf of bread, this organic bread. Bloody expensive. I came home very happy. I took some bites out of it. Then I was looking and thinking, “Maybe this will be enough for tomorrow.” Then Jason came in, and I put the bread aside. I had a feeling that he wanted the bread because when he came in, he said, “Oh, I’m so hungry!” I was looking, and he was looking at it. But then he took a slice of it for toast – my organic bread! Then,“tsak, tsak, tsak,” he ate it up. I just looked, but inside, I was thinking, “Just leave it! Just leave it!”

Dr. Berzin: Yeah. That’s very difficult when you have a roommate and they take your food. 

Participant: Then I was remembering how much I have taken from him in the past. It was like, “Come on. It is really too miserly to think like this.” It’s really challenging, these dilemmas that come up in ordinary life.

Dr. Berzin: It’s very challenging in ordinary life.

Also,  I always find animal images very good for these kinds of things. You see that you are acting like a dog, barking, when another dog goes over to your bowl and tries to take something from it. Do you protect it like a dog and growl – “Grrrrr!” – when somebody starts to go toward the refrigerator? Or you bought a chocolate, and you can’t finish the whole thing – do you hide the rest of it? Guests are coming – do you hide the rest of it? 

But it’s true. If you are in a relationship and you feel that your partner is stealing when they take something from you, it’s not going to work. 

Participant: Well, it’s not stealing; they also just want a piece of bread.

Dr. Berzin: They want it also. But I’m saying that the mentality is to feel that the other person is, basically, taking what doesn’t belong to them. This, I think, becomes quite an issue in some relationships. 

So, these are the things that Nagarjuna’s saying to watch out for – someone who has really different values from you. It could be different ethical values as well – let’s say, you’re somebody who is really into following every single law minutely, who would never cross the street when the light is red even if there are absolutely no cars around, and the other partner just crosses like in Delhi or New York whenever there’s an opportunity – could drive you and the other person crazy if you both are inflexible. It could absolutely drive you crazy. 

Participant: Then it is really the problem of the one who goes crazy. To be driven crazy by such a little thing is the problem of the one who feels it.

Dr. Berzin: That’s why I said that you need to be very flexible. Somebody has to give in. So, you cross to the other side and feel like an idiot because you have to wait for the other idiot on the other side of the road who’s waiting for the light to turn green – and there are no cars coming.

Participant: I had a partner that was like that.. He also crossed the street quickly, but it was not a problem for him. He waited on the other side just thinking about something else, looking. It’s not for everybody that it’s a problem.

Dr. Berzin: Not for everybody is it a problem.

Participant: He tolerated that.

Dr. Berzin: Well, this is what I’m saying: You have to be able to tolerate these differences. If you can’t tolerate them, it’s not going to work. The other one is a partner who is bossy – that they look down on you and are always being pushy, always trying to control. Then, the third one is that you can’t really share – the other person uses things of yours, and you don’t like that. 

These are what Nagarjuna points out as things that are going to make real trouble in relationships or partnerships. So, don’t take a wife or a husband, or a travel companion or a business companion like this. Start a business with somebody like this and see how that works! That is really challenging, really challenging. When both sides invest money in a business, and one starts accusing the other of running the business badly and losing their money – ooh, nasty. Really nasty. So, these are things that one has to work out very, very well beforehand.

Participant: So, one of the implications is just to avoid these situations.

Dr. Berzin: Avoid these situations. This is what he says, “Avoid (taking) these (types of) wives.”

Participant: Or maybe, you could just look at your own negative points in the conflict and try to work on them and see them as an emanation of your own mind?

Dr. Berzin: Well, is it possible to get into a difficult, challenging situation and then to work on it, to see it as an emanation of your mind and so on? One could. But I am always suspicious of the attitude (which I certainly had when I was much younger) that, “I’m messed up; you’re messed up. But we’ll work it out together.” You never work it out together. Inevitably, it doesn’t work. Obviously, the bias here is that everybody should become a monk or nun. However, given that that is not a very practical solution for everyone, I think what one really has to do is to check things out very, very carefully beforehand. 

I was in this kind of situation. I was translating and publishing books in India through the Library. After some years, there was, I felt, a problem in terms of copyrighting, distribution rights, and all these sorts of things. I had one point of view; the library had another point of view. They felt very strongly about their point of view, and there was nothing I could do about it. Serkong Rinpoche scolded me very much. He said, “The fault is yours; the fault is that you didn’t make everything clear in the beginning. Whenever you enter into some sort of arrangement with somebody, whether it’s a partnership like a marriage or a business deal,” or like now, with my website, having people translating it for me, “from the very beginning, before they start, make everything clear – what the financial situation is, what the ownership situation is, and so on.” If you make it clear from the beginning, then it’s not a problem, or it’s less of a problem. However, once things have been running for a long while and then you say, “Well, but I thought it was like this,” and it turns out that the other person thought it was like that – because it was never made clear – then you have big problems. 

So, can you work it out? I think that you have to try, from the very beginning, to acknowledge, “Look, we have these problems. I have this problem, and you have that problem. We are incompatible in these areas. Let us try to work on that, to be tolerant, flexible, and so on.” Agree in the beginning that both sides are going to work on it. Don’t wait for problems to arise and then complain, “Well, I want to work on it, but the other one doesn’t see that there is any problem.” I think that, from the beginning, things need to be clear.

That’s always a problem in relationships, I must say – that one person wants more from the other person. It’s often that one wants more space, and the other one wants more company. 

Participant: I think that the situation is always changing – that you cannot see beforehand.

Dr. Berzin: The situation is always changing. So, you have found this to be true. You’ve been married a long time. 

Participant: You get used to it.

Dr. Berzin: You get used to it. Well, yes. It’s like an old shoe; it fits, so you just keep it.

Participant: It’s strange, but it fits.

Dr. Berzin: However, I also know people who have been married for twenty or thirty years, and finally they say, “I’ve put up with this long enough. Enough already,” and then they get a divorce. Sure, things change in a relationship as each of you gets older and face different things in life. That’s for sure. But particularly with financial arrangements, I think it was very wise advice that Serkong Rinpoche gave – that from the very beginning, you make everything clear. Before a friendship develops, take care of your business relationship. 

So, here’s that verse again:

[36] Avoid (taking) these three (types of) wives, those whose natures are: to associate with your enemies, like assassins, to be contemptuous of their husbands, like baronesses, or to rob and steal even little things, like thieves.

Then, Nagarjuna says which types of partners to take. There are four qualities. 

(37) But one who, like a sister, is compatible (with you), or like a female friend, goes straight to your heart, or like a mother, wishes for your welfare, or like a maid, is obedient – honor her like a family deity.

So, Nagarjuna gives four qualities that will make a relationship work. The first is “like a sister, is compatible (with you).” So, it’s somebody who is compatible, who shares the same values, basically. They like to go to the same types of places for vacation, for example, or both like to live in the city, or both like to live the country. Then it works better. Otherwise, there is conflict and resentment, isn’t there? 

Compatibility

It’s not so easy to find somebody who’s really compatible with you, who likes the same types of movies or whatever it might be. That’s actually very difficult to find. But I think it still works well if you are open the idea that, “Sometimes we do what you like, and sometimes we do what I like.” That can work. Or “I like to go to violent, horror, war films,” and the partner doesn’t like that. So, the partner says, “OK, if you want to go, go with your friends; I don’t want to go,” and everybody is OK with that. Then, it’s OK. It’s OK as long as one person doesn’t go, “Oh, it’s so stupid that you’re going to that. That’s horrible.” Don’t make horrible faces. 

I think, also, what is helpful in a relationship is that each one is able to have a certain independence and that if there are things that you don’t share with the partner, you don’t have to; you don’t have to force it. Serkong Rinpoche used to say as well, “You’re never going to find somebody who will share every aspect of your life together or who will appreciate every little thing in your life, so why should you expect somebody to be able to do that?” With some people, you can share certain aspects of your life. So, with one person, you can share your interest in sports. With another person, you can share the intellectual aspect of life. With another person, you can share something different. 

I was having that problem. I was traveling all over the world, seeing so many different cultures, and so many different things, and my old friends and family could absolutely not relate to that. They didn’t even want to hear it; it was just too beyond their experience and comprehension. It was too much. Why do you expect that they should understand it? Why should you expect that they’re interested in that? There’s no reason. You can share other things with them. With other people who do a lot of international travel, you can share this aspect. I found that very helpful.

So, somebody who “like a sister, is compatible (with you)” – that’s just the opposite of what we were talking about before, which was somebody who is not compatible and who doesn’t share the same values. 

Goes Straight to the Heart – Openness and Compatibility

Then, the next is one who “like a female friend, goes straight to your heart.” I think what this is referring to is somebody with whom you can be totally open and honest; you can speak heart to heart with the person. You wouldn’t really need to keep secrets, to keep certain parts of your life hidden from the other person. 

Do you have this expression in German – “a heart-to-heart conversation”? Do you know what I mean by that? A heart-to-heart discussion is one where you can really say what you feel; you are not being polite just for the sake of being polite. No trips, no bullshit – just heart to heart. You can talk about what’s really going on, about what you think or what’s bothering you. There are a lot of people that won’t ever say what’s bothering them. Maybe it’s because they think, “I don’t want to hurt you.” But then it just keeps on boiling inside. That’s not helpful. That eventually just explodes, doesn’t it? That, I think, is a very important aspect if you are looking for a life partner or somebody to have a long-term relationship with – that you can really communicate heart to heart. In non-Buddhist terms, almost anti-Buddhist terms, you can “be yourself.”

Now, that involves trust, doesn’t it? You need to be able to trust that the other person is going to be accepting. Who is somebody that you can trust? Well, you don’t want somebody who is going to betray you to your enemies, who’s going to tell your inner most things that you wouldn’t tell anyone else – your kinky habits or whatever it might be. And then, that person tells other people, and they make fun of you, and it comes back to you. That you certainly don’t want. So, can you trust everybody? How do you earn trust? That’s an interesting question. Do you just go on intuition? Sometimes your intuition can be very wrong. 

Participant: Time and experience.

Dr. Berzin: Time and experience. But, aren’t there times when people just aren’t consistent, when peoples make mistakes? There are. 

Participant: Yeah, sure. That can happen.. 

Participant: If the relationship is well established, it will survive that.

Dr. Berzin: That’s true. But I find it very frustrating when something is really bothering one person in a friendship and they won’t tell you what it is, or it takes weeks before they finally get the courage to tell you. That’s very frustrating. 

So, someone who “goes straight to your heart” – you can speak straight to their heart, and they speak straight to your heart, “like a female friend” – this is, I think, a very important quality.

Wishes for Your Welfare – Caring

Then there is the type of partner who, “like a mother who wishes for your welfare” – somebody who not only wishes for your welfare but who will look after you if you get sick, somebody who really thinks about you, cares about you, and who, when they ask, “How are you?” isn’t just saying words without really wanting to know how you are. But what about the overbearing mother type of partner? Someone who cares too much – “Wear a sweater! You’re going to catch a cold!” – and who treats you like you’re eight years old. 

Somebody came to visit me today who had never been to my house. When I was giving them directions how to get here on the U-Bahn, I said, “I can come to the U-Bahn station if you give me a call just before you leave. Then I can meet you, and it’ll be easy for you to find my house.” Then they said, “Come on, I’m an adult; I can find your house.” So, I was treating this person like a child, whereas that wasn’t my intention. My intention was to be kind and to help them. 

Participant: And, finally, he didn’t find your house.

Dr. Berzin: Finally, he took a taxi, actually, because he was late and he could afford to take a taxi. 

Somebody who wishes for your welfare, somebody who really cares about you, somebody with whom you can share your day-to-day things – that, I find very important. Also, somebody who’s concerned – who will ask,: “How was your day at work?” – but without being bossy. It’s not so easy not to be bossy. Let’s say that the other person is not eating well, not really taking care of themselves well. How pushy are you going to be when you really care?  Are you being too pushy? Then the other person says, “Come on. I’m an adult. Don’t treat me like a child.” That requires quite a lot of sensitivity, doesn’t it? Quite a balance.

Participant: At my job, this is very difficult. When I go to these old people, I have to wash them and all this kind of stuff. Often, they say they don’t care. First, I try to… 

Dr. Berzin: They don’t care that you wash them, or they don’t want to be washed? 

Participant: Sometimes both. But sometimes they just don’t care if they smell or whatever. It doesn’t matter to them somehow; they don’t see the necessity of it. I have to explain, “You know, you have bacteria; you have to do it.” And they say, “I’m not dirty.” Then I say, “Well, there’s sweat and all this kind of stuff.” And then they go, “Ooh, ooh.” Sometimes I just have to wash them and not follow their wishes. I really have to be the boss. But sometimes, also, I think, “OK, now I’ll follow their wishes.” So, it’s really difficult to find the middle way. I can’t always just follow their wishes; otherwise, they would have to go to hospital or something after a month of not being washed.

Dr. Berzin: So, you take care of elderly people in their homes, and one of things that you need to do is wash them. But sometimes they don’t want to get washed. They feel that they’re not dirty and don’t need to be washed. Then there’s the delicate balance between being too pushy or just following their wishes. That’s a difficult thing.

Participant: Also, they get angry with you. But actually, what you’re doing is because you want to help them.

Dr. Berzin: Right. They get angry with you. How about in the hospital, when they wake you up in the middle of the night to give you a sleeping pill so you can go back to sleep, just because it says on the chart that, at certain hour, you’re supposed to be given a certain pill? I had a friend who this happened to.

That’s hard – to wish for the other person’s welfare, to want to take care of them but not to be pushy and to treat them like a child. But then, there are certain times when we want to be treated like a child; we want our mommy. Don’t you think? Sometimes we have periods when we feel very weak and very vulnerable, and we just want Mommy to take care of us. Again, it requires great sensitivity. 

Obedience

Then, the last quality is someone who, “like a maid, is obedient.” What do you think?

What Does Obedience Mean in Terms of Modern-Day Relationships?

Participant: These are old words, I think. You maybe have to see this in the context of… 

Dr. Berzin: Well, that is what I am saying. How would we translate this into our modern relationships? I think that in different situations, like with the elderly people that you’re washing, you say, “OK, you have to wash. You have to let me wash you,” – that they are obedient in that sense. But here, Nagarjuna says “a maid.” That is somebody that you give orders to: “Do this for me, do that for me.” That’s a hard one. “Could you get me a glass of water?” “Don’t be so lazy; go get it yourself.” Or do you always serve the other person? 

Participant: Maybe it has to do with seeing the wishes, the needs, of the other person, like a maid does. If I were a maid in a hotel or something, I would see the needs of the people who come, the guests. They also have partnerships. If I see the needs, then I try to fulfill the needs. Maybe, because of this I could be considered “like a maid.”

Dr. Berzin: Right. Like a maid who can see what the master needs. This is a really good servant, one that you don’t have to tell what to do. A good servant is sensitive – sees what needs to be done and does it. 

Participant: In that sense, you could just see what needs to be done in the household, like carrying each other’s bags without making a big thing out of it.

Dr. Berzin: Right. So, you see what needs to be done, like taking the garbage out, washing the dishes and so on. That’s an interesting thing when you’re living with the person you’re in a relationship with having to deal with these mundane tasks of cleaning the bathroom, washing the dishes, taking out the garbage, especially when you live on the fifth floor. 

However, being “obedient” is when you ask the other person to do something, or they ask you to do something, they necessarily do it or you necessarily do it. I don’t know. Do you do it? I suppose it depends on whether or not it’s reasonable. 

Participant: I think “obedient” is somehow the wrong word for emancipated people.

Dr. Berzin: You “comply.” Use the board word.

Participant: Once, I read in a book about the same question, actually. The example was that, if you have to help in the kitchen, but you want to go and read a book, what do you do? Also, the question came up, “OK, do you follow your wish, or do you help?” I said just to get the reality, see what the reality is. Then, you will find the solution because you will see what has to be done and do it.

Dr. Berzin: Well, you see what has to be done. The question was asked whether you help with the chore or do something else. The dishes have to be washed, but you also have to get enlightened, so you have to go read and study or meditate. Christian already gave the answer – that when you see reality, you see what has to be done. You could answer the question either way – that the dishes need to be washed or that meditation has to be done to reach enlightenment. 

Participant: That’s no answer at all, actually.

Dr. Berzin: Right. That’s no answer. 

Participant: Otherwise, you could never go on a three-year retreat. 

Dr. Berzin: Right. You could never go on a three-year retreat, and the Buddha could never have left his house, left his family. But this thing of obedience is an interesting question. Do you do what your partner asks you to do? 

Participant: Well, you could do it in a free world kind of way – not in a co-dependent way where the other is the boss and you are the slave.

Dr. Berzin: Yeah, but you could be happy being the slave.

Participant: But you could also be happy doing things that your partner asked for.

Dr. Berzin: Right. Or it could be like a bodhisattva: “I want to help. I’m happy when you ask me to do something.”

Participant: Or, maybe like a well-trained servant.

Participant: I think you’re off the path now. A servant gets paid for it. So, that’s OK.

Dr. Berzin: The servant gets paid for it. Right.

Participant: If you need a maid, you can have a maid. But then pay her. 

Dr. Berzin: Do you pay? I’m in a situation in which, because of my website, people send me questions. Do I obey in the sense of answering all their questions? They certainly don’t pay me anything. Or do I say, “Well, the guru will answer your question for ten euros”? 

Participant: Online consultation.

Dr. Berzin: Consultation fees. 

Participant: Two euros per minute.

Dr. Berzin: Two euros per minute, right – an “800” number that you have to call. In Germany, those are expensive calls. In America, “800” numbers are free calls. How much do you obey? Do you go along with other people’s wishes? Are you the grand bodhisattva that is always glad to help? What if the other person takes advantage of you and just makes you into a slave? 

Participant: That’s a problem, I think.

Dr. Berzin: That’s the problem.

Participant: That’s the point when you know there’s a problem – when the feeling comes up that you’re being abused. Then one should stop it.

Dr. Berzin: Then you have to stop. That’s true.

Participant: Also, if one is exhausted or burnt out or whatever.

Dr. Berzin: What if you are the one who is abusing the other one, and the other one is a little bit emotionally sick in the sense that they want that treatment or just go along with it and would never say anything? I think it’s important to recognize in yourself if you are abusing somebody and then to stop it. There are certain people who are very easy to abuse. They let you abuse them. And they’ll never say anything because they’re afraid that you’ll leave them. This happens often with a woman in a relationship with a man; they take a lot of abuse because they are afraid that it’ll be even worse if they’re left on their own. “Serve me woman! Have my food on the table when I come home.” I remember a couple in which the husband referred to the wife like that – “Woman, do this, do that.” And she did it.

Participant: This is like a couple, some clients of mine, whom I recently visited. They have a very big, nice cat, and he loves the cat. He said to his wife, “I like this cat more than you, actually.” I thought that was very strange. This woman is really sick, actually. But I think that, over a long period of time, people get crazy.

Dr. Berzin: Right. The husband said he liked the cat more than he liked the wife. Nevertheless, she stays in the relationship.

This thing of obedience – can you expect that the person you’re in a relationship with will do things for you? Is that reasonable to expect? 

Participant: To expect? In what way?

Dr. Berzin: Not to expect it but that you’d like it. 

Participant: Expect is not the right word…

Dr. Berzin: Do you expect your partner to cook a meal? 

Participant: No. I don’t, actually. Sometimes I am hoping! 

Dr. Berzin: Sometimes you are hoping, yes! When you have cooked five times in a row…

Participant: Expecting a little bit.

Dr. Berzin: Right. You are in a long-term marriage situation. Does this question of the other person asking you to do something or you asking them to something become a problem? 

Participant: Not so much. Sometimes I do it; sometimes she does it.

Dr. Berzin: Both do it. What about if the other person refuses? “Don’t be so lazy. Do it yourself. What am I, your servant?”

Participant: It depends on how you refuse! 

Dr. Berzin: Depends on how you refuse! 

Participant: Find a good excuse!

Dr. Berzin: “I’m really busy now.” 

Participant: “Oh, I am so overwhelmed.”

Dr. Berzin: So overwhelmed. I think another problem is when you expect your partner to be like a prostitute – that they will have sex with you when you want. And if they say, “I don’t feel like it,” you become upset. Should your partner always comply when you want sex? That can be a big problem in a relationship, can’t it? Or they demand that you perform when you’re really tired.  

Participant: That’s terrible.

Dr. Berzin: It’s terrible if you don’t really feel like it, if you’re not into it and just want to go to sleep. So, is obedience an issue there? That, I found, was a big problem in Dharma partnerships where one partner didn’t want to have sex anymore and felt, “It’s wrong to have sex. There’s too much desire and stuff like that,” and the other partner wanted to continue having sex. That could be a big problem. I’ve known marriages that have broken up because of that. 

Participant: I think it’s a bit hard if they don’t want sex anymore – hard for the other partner. It’s too extreme. If you’re in a marriage, and then it’s like, “No more?!”

Dr. Berzin: Right, that is too extreme. 

So, all of these are issues here. They all come under the rubric of distraction, which  is the topic. If you are going to have a partner, and if, within that partner relationship, you want to do serious Dharma practice and, particularly, to do some sort of retreat and to meditate, to try to get some concentration, it would be very helpful and supportive to have a healthy relationship with the person, not a partner who is going to complain and give you a hard time. That would cause a lot of distraction, wouldn’t it? 

In a partner relationship, when one person wants to do a three-year retreat – boy, can that ruin a relationship, a marriage! In a particular case that I’m thinking of, the partner actually went along and did a three-year retreat as well. One was in the women’s section, and one was in the men’s section, and the man hated it. He was doing it, basically, because the wife was doing it, which is a terrible motivation.  He especially hated it since they were separated for the three years.

Participant: What was the result for the man?

Dr. Berzin: The result of the man… it’s really interesting. The result of the man was that he was really very negative during it. They both finished the three years, and after awhile, the man decided he wanted to go back and do it again.

Participant: Properly.

Dr. Berzin:  Properly. And he went back and did it again. In that case, in the end, it worked out OK. Actually, now he feels that he’d like to stay in retreat for the rest of his life. But initially, it was a disaster for him.

Participant: Did their teacher know about this? 

Dr. Berzin: I have no idea. But if you’re in a relationship and you know that your partner is really hurt that you’re going into a three-year retreat – that can be a tremendous distraction. On the other hand, if you know that your loved ones support you in doing the retreat, it’s a great help, isn’t it? Your mind can be at ease. So, these sorts of the things are what Nagarjuna is pointing out to the king.

[37] But one who, like a sister, is compatible (with you), or like a female friend, goes straight to your heart, or like a mother, wishes for your welfare, or like a maid, is obedient – honor her like a family deity.

A “family deity” is obviously something very precious to the family and to the home. 

OK? So, let’s think about these points. Then, next time, we can speak about distraction concerning food and problems with sleeping too much. Those can be real problems if you’re trying to do retreat. It’s really funny how some people say that the best way to run a successful retreat center is to have a good cook.